https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1815427698703090085

Topics – what they said :: my comments

Natalism – Earth can fit 10x, Erlich is wrong and evil, anti-natalism is evil. :: Hard to argue with any of this, it’s all obvious.

Consciousness – Elon seems as confused about consciousness as most philosophers of mind. We simply don’t know what point in between one cell and a whole organism things are conscious. He seems, like me, more skeptical of machine consciousness than the computationalists, Bostrom, and Lesswrongers.

OpenAI – Elon is pissed that the good moral compass of Ilya left and it’s no longer open. :: That’s my main disagreement with Elon in life. I think open company developing AI is super dangerous and having it be closed is also horrible but better than the alternative.

Woke Mind Virus – Elon is concerned about the virus in AI :: I don’t think that’s a relevant concern for ASI. If ASI goes awry with a Midas touch type error, it won’t be because it misgendered someone, it will be because it was misprogrammed in a Midas like way that narrowed the utility function goal content integrity in the wrong ways.

DEI – is bad and Democrats are stoking division.

Religion – Jordan couldn’t get to Elon, because his allegories and metaphors don’t feel like a response to Elon. Elon is able to pick apart specifics he doesn’t like even within Petersonian discourse, plus he has cached thoughts on Christian parts he likes. Basically, Elon was having “one more conversation about Christianity” whereas Peterson was trying to offer his unique view, unsuccessfully. The full mighty of Peterson’s map of meaning didn’t get to the convo.

Children – They both think people became better, phenomenologically, after having kids. :: I think this is true for guys like them, highly conscientious and wealthy, but not everyone.

Environmentalism – To the extent it’s antinatalist is evil. And to another extent, Elon thinks it is good but went too far. :: I have no strong opinion

MAG – Make America Greater – We have a choice of administrations and we need to pick sides. Elon doesn’t like cults of personality. He thinks America is controlled by the Unions? (WHAT?, Unions in the USA are so weak compared to other countries. Why does he believe that?). Elon says a Republican administration is good, whereas Jordan is more personal and psychological about the goodness of Trump. Elon thinks Trump is bright, intimidating, and courageous. :: I’m more like Jordan, I like Trump more than the republican agenda, I suspect that’s because we understand psychology better than Musk, and because of differences in the Trans-kids item below that led Musk to move republican.

Regulation reduction – Musk sees catalysts and chemistry in laws, and wants fewer laws so people can do more things, because most regulation ends up being permanent. :: I defer to Musk and Thiel. Trump is the great de-regulator, as is Vance. My usual caveat is that this is true of every technology except ASI, which could take over earth, Bostrom, Paul Christiano, etc…

Trans-kids / California leaving – Elon’s threat of leaving California if they do puberty blockers. He said Newsome knew beforehand. Elon has a trans kid. They think of it as sterilization and mutilation. :: I thought about this for a while. I think XY people should be able to prevent their bones from growing too much if they want to become female. But not the reverse. That’s because XX people behave like herds, especially as teens and are not great at entertaining future consequences. :: Elon said he was tricked into believing puberty blockers are just blockers, but the reality is they are sterilization and mutilation. That’s when he vowed to “destroy the woke mind virus”. Peterson cried in empathy. :: My stance depends on the science. IF puberty blockers for XY people can prevent skeletal growth without compromising reproductive potential, I don’t see why it should not be allowed, since 25 people don’t regret transitioning for each one that does. My stance here is utilitarian. Living 70 years as a woman but having the skeleton of a man is a very hard life, and 95%+ of people don’t regret transitioning. So one needs to evaluate the reproductive risks.
Asking GPT4o I’m getting 20% infertility for only Puberty blockers and 90% if you also do gender-affirming care, so my stance is that gender-affirming care should only be allowed for adults, whereas blocking puberty could be allowed for XY gender dysphoric people.

General: It would be useful to see Jordan and Musk expand the conversation of the scope and scale of consciousness which via Douglas Adams provides Musk with meaning, as well as to see Jordan compact better the lessons in Maps of Meaning in a digestible way to Musk.

Elon and Jordan are two of the 100 most influential living humans, and have done considerable improvement to the human condition. Anyone reading this should be inspired to do similar things, multiplied by the difference in IQ and conscientiousness, since both of them are 145+ and 99.9th conscientious. You’re likely not, but try to do as much good as your specs allow.